dclocke
Sep 19, 07:37 AM
It amazes me that people can get so worked up about a processor that was only officially released three weeks ago.
It never ends either. As soon as Merom chips are in the MacBook range everyone will just move on to the next thing. When are Apple going to put quad cores in their high end products? When are the Macbooks going to be updated with Santa Rosa? When are we going to get nand cache?
It amazes me that people who are so opposed to discussion of upcoming Merom notebooks still click on the links to the forums with titles using the terms "Merom" and "MacBook Pro". If you're a regular on the forums, sure, I can see how constant discussion about the "next" platform might get old. So ignore them. Do something productive with your time. In my case, I am currently in the market for a MBP. I have two other laptops, so I don't need one. But I want one. And when it's likely that updates are imminent, it's smart in my case to wait. For that, these threads serve a purpose, by notifying me of new rumors/news that I might not find otherwise. In addition, I learned of the student ADC membership which may save me $400 on my new laptop purchase. Once I buy the notebook, I will probably not look at this site very often for a few years, when I am ready to buy a new one. So let people talk about new hardware. People who are getting ready to spend >$2000 on a laptop have every right to anticipate when the next "update" will be, so they can better time when to make their purchase.
What's funny is that even if new MacBooks and MacBook Pros were released tomorrow with the newer Merom chip, 90% of you folks in here wouldn't notice a difference in your daily computing. You would not say "OMG, this 64 bit processing and extra .16Ghz speed is AWESOME!!! I can't BELIEVE I lived without this for so long!!!" You wouldn't even notice unless someone told you.
Granted, my argument will likely place me in the other 10% of posters. But here goes anyway. Some of us aren't here because we are looking forward to a 16GHz speed increase. Some of us see other tangible benefits to a MBP update.
1. The 64-bit ISA, for a few reasons. First, what if I want to run Vista sometime down the road? Leopard will support 32-bit processors, but why not take full advantage of 64-bit capabilities when it's built in? Those of us who purchase will likely have the machine for a few years. Who knows what kinds of applications that take advantage of a 64-bit ISA will emerge during that time? Also, from a development aspect, I am looking forward to having a 64-bit machine available to me.
2. Possiblity of other upgrades, and/or a price decrease. Some changes that would be nice are: more memory as a base option (for equal or lesser price), easily replaceable HD, upgraded graphics card, etc... The list goes on. It is redundant to post this here, since it is all over the entries in this thread (and others).
When most people in this thread say "Merom", what they really mean is "notebook with a Merom processor and hopefully some other changes for the better as well." Sure, there are others who just hear the word "Merom," know it's the latest Intel chip, and want it for purely that reason. Well, you know what? They're getting ready to spend a lot of money on a machine, so they can wait for whatever they want to wait for. Give 'em a break. Let them discuss it. Let them speculate. If you get tired of it, don't read the thread. And don't be condescending towards them just because they want to feel like they made a smart purchase.
It never ends either. As soon as Merom chips are in the MacBook range everyone will just move on to the next thing. When are Apple going to put quad cores in their high end products? When are the Macbooks going to be updated with Santa Rosa? When are we going to get nand cache?
It amazes me that people who are so opposed to discussion of upcoming Merom notebooks still click on the links to the forums with titles using the terms "Merom" and "MacBook Pro". If you're a regular on the forums, sure, I can see how constant discussion about the "next" platform might get old. So ignore them. Do something productive with your time. In my case, I am currently in the market for a MBP. I have two other laptops, so I don't need one. But I want one. And when it's likely that updates are imminent, it's smart in my case to wait. For that, these threads serve a purpose, by notifying me of new rumors/news that I might not find otherwise. In addition, I learned of the student ADC membership which may save me $400 on my new laptop purchase. Once I buy the notebook, I will probably not look at this site very often for a few years, when I am ready to buy a new one. So let people talk about new hardware. People who are getting ready to spend >$2000 on a laptop have every right to anticipate when the next "update" will be, so they can better time when to make their purchase.
What's funny is that even if new MacBooks and MacBook Pros were released tomorrow with the newer Merom chip, 90% of you folks in here wouldn't notice a difference in your daily computing. You would not say "OMG, this 64 bit processing and extra .16Ghz speed is AWESOME!!! I can't BELIEVE I lived without this for so long!!!" You wouldn't even notice unless someone told you.
Granted, my argument will likely place me in the other 10% of posters. But here goes anyway. Some of us aren't here because we are looking forward to a 16GHz speed increase. Some of us see other tangible benefits to a MBP update.
1. The 64-bit ISA, for a few reasons. First, what if I want to run Vista sometime down the road? Leopard will support 32-bit processors, but why not take full advantage of 64-bit capabilities when it's built in? Those of us who purchase will likely have the machine for a few years. Who knows what kinds of applications that take advantage of a 64-bit ISA will emerge during that time? Also, from a development aspect, I am looking forward to having a 64-bit machine available to me.
2. Possiblity of other upgrades, and/or a price decrease. Some changes that would be nice are: more memory as a base option (for equal or lesser price), easily replaceable HD, upgraded graphics card, etc... The list goes on. It is redundant to post this here, since it is all over the entries in this thread (and others).
When most people in this thread say "Merom", what they really mean is "notebook with a Merom processor and hopefully some other changes for the better as well." Sure, there are others who just hear the word "Merom," know it's the latest Intel chip, and want it for purely that reason. Well, you know what? They're getting ready to spend a lot of money on a machine, so they can wait for whatever they want to wait for. Give 'em a break. Let them discuss it. Let them speculate. If you get tired of it, don't read the thread. And don't be condescending towards them just because they want to feel like they made a smart purchase.
TitoC
Jun 9, 01:44 PM
According to RadioShack's official Twitter account, the electronics chain will be carrying iPhone 4 as of its U.S. launch on June 24th.
That's "THE SHACK" to you sir! Sorry, I still can't over this crappy, crappy branding decision of theirs to call themselves "The Shack." Really?
When I watched basketball performances, it was from "The Shack." When I was 12, I had my porno hidden in "The Shack." And when I was 15 and in the Boy Scouts and I went camping/boating, I took a crap in "The Shack." But, when I was 16 and built a home-made rocket, I got my parts from "RADIO SHACK."
That's "THE SHACK" to you sir! Sorry, I still can't over this crappy, crappy branding decision of theirs to call themselves "The Shack." Really?
When I watched basketball performances, it was from "The Shack." When I was 12, I had my porno hidden in "The Shack." And when I was 15 and in the Boy Scouts and I went camping/boating, I took a crap in "The Shack." But, when I was 16 and built a home-made rocket, I got my parts from "RADIO SHACK."
CaoCao
Feb 28, 10:02 PM
I seem to recall you agreeing with this post:
And by "living with" I mean having sex and having a family as well.
Yes, I did agree with that post. What is your point?
And yet you seem quite certain how the human brain works and what is normal/ not normal. :rolleyes:
My original point was that you made an assertive, sweeping generalization without any backup. Just a very matter-of-fact "Hey, all you humans, here is how your body was designed. All you gays, you are not the default. Trust me, I'm from teh internetz."
It's clumsy and insensitive at best, and just more religion-based trolling at worst.
Heterosexuality is by definition normal (conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected). What percentage of the population is homosexual, what percentage is heterosexual?
Humans by default have four fingers and a thumb on each hand. Am I being mean to people with more or fewer fingers? No, just stating a fact.
And by "living with" I mean having sex and having a family as well.
Yes, I did agree with that post. What is your point?
And yet you seem quite certain how the human brain works and what is normal/ not normal. :rolleyes:
My original point was that you made an assertive, sweeping generalization without any backup. Just a very matter-of-fact "Hey, all you humans, here is how your body was designed. All you gays, you are not the default. Trust me, I'm from teh internetz."
It's clumsy and insensitive at best, and just more religion-based trolling at worst.
Heterosexuality is by definition normal (conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected). What percentage of the population is homosexual, what percentage is heterosexual?
Humans by default have four fingers and a thumb on each hand. Am I being mean to people with more or fewer fingers? No, just stating a fact.
DwightSchrute
Aug 27, 01:03 PM
Then for some reason it was bumped to a new ship date of august 31st, just enough time to drop a new merom processor in it!
That is interesting because I ordered a Macbook on Tuesday (the 22nd) and mine is also scheduled to ship on the 31st. It is suspiciously strange and hopefully it means that we'll get Meroms because I was waiting for the Merom MBP when I decided to just order a Yonah MB.
That is interesting because I ordered a Macbook on Tuesday (the 22nd) and mine is also scheduled to ship on the 31st. It is suspiciously strange and hopefully it means that we'll get Meroms because I was waiting for the Merom MBP when I decided to just order a Yonah MB.
wizard
Apr 6, 04:05 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)
For a programmer dealing with Terminal, Xcode, Netbeans, Eclipse, etc (not graphic intensive softwares), would this macbook air be a better deal than the 13/15" Macbook pro?
Anyone?
It depends upon the programmer doesn't it?
One concern I would have is wear on the SSD. Due to that I couldn't recommend the current model with it's limited SSD size. Look at how much space your current installation uses and then multiply by 3. That ought to give you enough excess capacity to assure that wear leveling works to your advantage. Considering how my machine is set up that would mean about 350GB of SSD.
In any event why would you even ask if an rumored un released machine is suitable for your usage? There are many factors to consider and to evaluate them you need the machines real specs nit rumors.
For a programmer dealing with Terminal, Xcode, Netbeans, Eclipse, etc (not graphic intensive softwares), would this macbook air be a better deal than the 13/15" Macbook pro?
Anyone?
It depends upon the programmer doesn't it?
One concern I would have is wear on the SSD. Due to that I couldn't recommend the current model with it's limited SSD size. Look at how much space your current installation uses and then multiply by 3. That ought to give you enough excess capacity to assure that wear leveling works to your advantage. Considering how my machine is set up that would mean about 350GB of SSD.
In any event why would you even ask if an rumored un released machine is suitable for your usage? There are many factors to consider and to evaluate them you need the machines real specs nit rumors.
applebb
Apr 7, 11:27 PM
You people don't know the facts and are jumping to conclusions. You need to realize that this is a RUMOR site....
MattSepeta
Apr 27, 02:13 PM
1. You opened it in Illustrator, not InDesign.
2. After I opened it in Illustrator like you did it did reveal some interesting things. It seems that fields #20 and #22 are on individual layers.
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6643/picture1hz.png (http://img163.imageshack.us/i/picture1hz.png/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
I am fairly confident that rather than pointing to a conspiracy, this simply shows that when scanned, the operator had enabled some sort of "auto-text" option that attempted to read and convert then embed the raw text info in the PDF, as to make the text "selectable" in preview programs.
It only worked on certain text, as is par for the course.
2. After I opened it in Illustrator like you did it did reveal some interesting things. It seems that fields #20 and #22 are on individual layers.
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6643/picture1hz.png (http://img163.imageshack.us/i/picture1hz.png/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
I am fairly confident that rather than pointing to a conspiracy, this simply shows that when scanned, the operator had enabled some sort of "auto-text" option that attempted to read and convert then embed the raw text info in the PDF, as to make the text "selectable" in preview programs.
It only worked on certain text, as is par for the course.
AtHomeBoy_2000
Aug 6, 11:46 AM
Mac OS X Leopard
Introducing Vista 2.0
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=207241438&size=l
That's funny. A nice little jab at M$. Classic!
Introducing Vista 2.0
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=207241438&size=l
That's funny. A nice little jab at M$. Classic!
Multimedia
Nov 28, 06:30 PM
I would make sure to NEVER buy another piece of music published by them if they were to extort this from Steve which I highly doubt. If I were Steve I would laugh in their face and call them INSANE to their face as well. Like setting up a toll booth on the railroad tracks of a 200MPH MagLev Train.
HecubusPro
Aug 27, 09:37 PM
Sifting through this thread can make one either optimistic or irrational, depending on who you ask. One point I found absent among the discussion was the possibility of a Core 2 Duo machine coinciding with the September 16th iPod offer end date.
Makes sense to me, but then I tend to get shouted down a lot in this forum. ;)
What about simply rational? It's easy to become excited at the prospect of shiny new merom macs ready to hit store shelves tomorrow or tuesday, but I think that's premature. The rational part of me, which has taken over the part of me that's flipping out excited, says we'll see them within three to four weeks. I know that's disappointing to a lot of people, but if you have read through these posts, and the macforums front page, I think it's easy to surmise that that will be the case.
Of course, I would love for my MBP merom to hit stores tomorrow, so if I'm wrong, I'll eat a raw potato. :p But I don't see anything wrong with saying new merom systems will ship by the 16th to take advantage of the Nano promotion. In fact, I bet Apple is probably scrambling to make sure that is the case.
But don't be fooled by my rational side too much. I've already bought a .mac account and a cool new backpack to house my MBP when it finally does ship. I'm about ready to jump out of my skin I'm so excited.:D
EDIT: Wow! I just made "macforums member!" :cool:
Makes sense to me, but then I tend to get shouted down a lot in this forum. ;)
What about simply rational? It's easy to become excited at the prospect of shiny new merom macs ready to hit store shelves tomorrow or tuesday, but I think that's premature. The rational part of me, which has taken over the part of me that's flipping out excited, says we'll see them within three to four weeks. I know that's disappointing to a lot of people, but if you have read through these posts, and the macforums front page, I think it's easy to surmise that that will be the case.
Of course, I would love for my MBP merom to hit stores tomorrow, so if I'm wrong, I'll eat a raw potato. :p But I don't see anything wrong with saying new merom systems will ship by the 16th to take advantage of the Nano promotion. In fact, I bet Apple is probably scrambling to make sure that is the case.
But don't be fooled by my rational side too much. I've already bought a .mac account and a cool new backpack to house my MBP when it finally does ship. I'm about ready to jump out of my skin I'm so excited.:D
EDIT: Wow! I just made "macforums member!" :cool:
wmmk
Jul 14, 06:07 PM
the question still remains--will the powermacs be able to use standard, off the shelf, pc video cards?
i know that you couldn't do so in the power architecture due to the bios irregularities. now that they're using efi, does this still mean we have to buy mac based cards? because that's really the question nobody seems to ask and nobody seems to have an answer for.
what this new mac workstation will mean is the chance to upgrade your macs based on commodity parts. no more mac tax for hardware. i remember when the radeon 9700 was king, the price was around $299 for pc version and $399 for mac version.
think about this, the ability to upgrade processor, video card, and sound card without having to pay the apple tax.
that's what it really comes down to. the speculative "good" version of the mac pro has a so-so video card, but it's not really worth the $600 more just to get a 1800, i'd rather just get the 1600 and upgrade on my own.
oh, btw, i did some of my own investigations and found this site:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/7_series_techspecs.html
which may mean that the standard cards are compatible with mac os x now.
i'v actually heard that with a normal PC, you can make almost any NVIDIA card compatible with mac, but it takes a bit of geekery and hackery.
i know that you couldn't do so in the power architecture due to the bios irregularities. now that they're using efi, does this still mean we have to buy mac based cards? because that's really the question nobody seems to ask and nobody seems to have an answer for.
what this new mac workstation will mean is the chance to upgrade your macs based on commodity parts. no more mac tax for hardware. i remember when the radeon 9700 was king, the price was around $299 for pc version and $399 for mac version.
think about this, the ability to upgrade processor, video card, and sound card without having to pay the apple tax.
that's what it really comes down to. the speculative "good" version of the mac pro has a so-so video card, but it's not really worth the $600 more just to get a 1800, i'd rather just get the 1600 and upgrade on my own.
oh, btw, i did some of my own investigations and found this site:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/7_series_techspecs.html
which may mean that the standard cards are compatible with mac os x now.
i'v actually heard that with a normal PC, you can make almost any NVIDIA card compatible with mac, but it takes a bit of geekery and hackery.
shamino
Jul 22, 12:06 PM
I'm just curious about your post. Why would anyone in their right mind maintain a website for a product/company that no longer exists? Seems like a big waste of time and resources. I can see doing something similar for archival purposes, but that link leads to a complete website that has the appearance that it is still active.
I can think of several reasons. To sell service and support to users that have no other source, and has a hobby are the biggest two that come to mind.
You might be surprised to learn that there are still a lot of Amiga (http://www.amiga.com/)-enthusiast web sites, and even one where the owners are making new hardware (http://www.a2retrosystems.com/index.htm) for Apple-II series computers. (And there appears to be a surprisingly strong demand for Apple II Ethernet cards!)
I can think of several reasons. To sell service and support to users that have no other source, and has a hobby are the biggest two that come to mind.
You might be surprised to learn that there are still a lot of Amiga (http://www.amiga.com/)-enthusiast web sites, and even one where the owners are making new hardware (http://www.a2retrosystems.com/index.htm) for Apple-II series computers. (And there appears to be a surprisingly strong demand for Apple II Ethernet cards!)
Reach
Sep 19, 02:38 AM
Damn. Though the interesting thing is I don't need the speed increase, My Core Duo iMac is too fast fast for my mediocre every day use. It still want Merom, badly, not knowing why.
haha At least you get it. :) Most people shouldn't fall into the everchurning machine on incremental updates to keep people buying more than they really need.
But for some it makes a difference though, usually the Pro-users, and time saved on processing data is time saved for making money, and I understand why they "need" it. Well, maybe I understand so readily because I "need" it myself. :)
haha At least you get it. :) Most people shouldn't fall into the everchurning machine on incremental updates to keep people buying more than they really need.
But for some it makes a difference though, usually the Pro-users, and time saved on processing data is time saved for making money, and I understand why they "need" it. Well, maybe I understand so readily because I "need" it myself. :)
NT1440
Mar 23, 10:27 AM
Good for Samsung!
To the industry: THIS is the approach you take to new markets. Don't just come up with an answer to the original (iPad in this case), get you engineers engaged and push to define where the market will go, not where it currently is.
This is honestly the first tablet introduced by the industry that I feel is a competitor to the iPad.
That said, sales wise iPad will be king of the castle for quite some time. You can't really price the apple ecosystem, or beat the usability of iOS. iPad definitely has the mindshare, which is what you need in emerging markets. Take a look at the category definers Apple has introduced. Basically they set the standard for whatever market they are in (with exceptions for a few).
To the industry: THIS is the approach you take to new markets. Don't just come up with an answer to the original (iPad in this case), get you engineers engaged and push to define where the market will go, not where it currently is.
This is honestly the first tablet introduced by the industry that I feel is a competitor to the iPad.
That said, sales wise iPad will be king of the castle for quite some time. You can't really price the apple ecosystem, or beat the usability of iOS. iPad definitely has the mindshare, which is what you need in emerging markets. Take a look at the category definers Apple has introduced. Basically they set the standard for whatever market they are in (with exceptions for a few).
jholzner
Jul 20, 11:23 AM
If you want wild speculation, here goes....
Apple might use the Conroe and ConroeXE in the first Mac Pros and then add in support for Kentsfield (quad) when it becomes available. This could well be the reason why Intel has brought forward the release of Kentsfield.
Somehow I doubt that Intel would change thier roadmap for/because of Apple. They are probably one of their smallest customers :P
Apple might use the Conroe and ConroeXE in the first Mac Pros and then add in support for Kentsfield (quad) when it becomes available. This could well be the reason why Intel has brought forward the release of Kentsfield.
Somehow I doubt that Intel would change thier roadmap for/because of Apple. They are probably one of their smallest customers :P
ryanw
Aug 26, 03:44 AM
I've owned 4 macs.
First a G3 iBook, then a G4 AluBook, then an eMac and now I'm on a G4 iBook.
NEVER had a problem with any of the machines. They have been great. Just to let you know it isn't all bad. I also pay for .mac and have done for 2 years now. I'm happy with it and yes I get spam but the filter is very good and its hardly an issue for me.
If you haven't been reading the comments, it would appear MOST people are complaining about the more recent models. I would agree with most that the Powermac G5's have had serious issues and now recent macbook's... Apple needs to do one of the following ... Higher Quality Assurance testing OR better support cause right now they're missing both.
First a G3 iBook, then a G4 AluBook, then an eMac and now I'm on a G4 iBook.
NEVER had a problem with any of the machines. They have been great. Just to let you know it isn't all bad. I also pay for .mac and have done for 2 years now. I'm happy with it and yes I get spam but the filter is very good and its hardly an issue for me.
If you haven't been reading the comments, it would appear MOST people are complaining about the more recent models. I would agree with most that the Powermac G5's have had serious issues and now recent macbook's... Apple needs to do one of the following ... Higher Quality Assurance testing OR better support cause right now they're missing both.
aly
Aug 27, 03:58 PM
I'm a bit fed up of all these estimates and random guesses at when apple will release merom updated MBPs. Although I am waiting for the revision before I buy one, I've decided to just wait till I see one instead of getting my hopes up each tuessday :) hehe. Ah well maybe next tuesday.....
kdarling
Apr 6, 02:14 PM
That's actually more than I expected.
Yep, not bad considering it's $800 without contract.
Yep, not bad considering it's $800 without contract.
macfan881
Sep 6, 10:31 PM
Seems like best buy is getting Playable Demos of the game I played it at mine I'm not a big racing sim fan but wow day 1 purchase for me awesome demo.
Super Dave
Aug 8, 12:50 AM
Also a very good point, so I need a bigger main HD for my MacBookPro (the new Seagate 160GB becomes interesting) for Time Machine, but i still need to back the hole thing up to an external HD in case of a HD crash (I had 2 in the last 8 months!). So Tine Machine doesn't make Backups obsolete, I didn't even think of that up to now. Hmmm..
Time Machine is backup, it's not for on the same drive (or nothing implied it was).
David :cool:
Time Machine is backup, it's not for on the same drive (or nothing implied it was).
David :cool:
Cougarcat
Mar 26, 02:23 PM
You may get your wish soon. It appears that Lion will be Step 1 in the blending of the two OS's. A bridge. Step 2 may very well be the one & only Apple OS - based on iOS.
There's too much money in the volume sales of iPhones & iPads for Apple to focus on anything else.
Ridiculous. Mac OS X and iOS can never merge because their UI paradigms are completely different. Why don't people understand this?
And on what computers would iOS apps be developed on of Apple were to can the Mac? iOS may be much more popular, but the Mac is more popular now than it ever has been and still makes then plenty of money.
There's too much money in the volume sales of iPhones & iPads for Apple to focus on anything else.
Ridiculous. Mac OS X and iOS can never merge because their UI paradigms are completely different. Why don't people understand this?
And on what computers would iOS apps be developed on of Apple were to can the Mac? iOS may be much more popular, but the Mac is more popular now than it ever has been and still makes then plenty of money.
BornAgainMac
Jul 21, 07:19 AM
Now you just need to decide what color your want your new computer... (again)
Benjy91
Apr 27, 09:06 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-gb) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)
A lot of people are upset over this. But, no one seems to care that the US Government can snoop on any electronic communication it wants for well over 10 years now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echelon_(signals_intelligence)
Data transmissions, cell phone calls, you name it. I think we're trying to cook the wrong goose if you ask me.
Of course, anyone who doesnt like this idea, is a communist who hates America and Freedom.
A lot of people are upset over this. But, no one seems to care that the US Government can snoop on any electronic communication it wants for well over 10 years now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echelon_(signals_intelligence)
Data transmissions, cell phone calls, you name it. I think we're trying to cook the wrong goose if you ask me.
Of course, anyone who doesnt like this idea, is a communist who hates America and Freedom.
MattSepeta
Mar 23, 02:09 PM
If you are supporting non-intervention, than I disagree. I support the notion that the UN (using member-nations' pooled military or civilian assets) should be able to intervene in a nation's affairs if it is thought necessary to either 1) protect other nations from harm or 2) protect a nation's own people from its government, or in the case of a civil war, one or more factions.
With that being said, the UN has many flaws and I am not satisfied with the way things are done. But I do feel that intervention is sometimes necessary, if imperfect.
That is totally reasonable and understandable, although I do disagree. I can't with good heart support sending my neighbors son/daughter overseas to fight for another people.
I just find it pretty disgusting when we have the VP going on the record talking out his arse about "Unless we are attacked or unless there is proof we are about to be attacked", then a couple years later nary a peep when we start bombing a foreign country that is not even close to a threat to us. Did Biden qualify it with a " we should be able to intervene in a nation's affairs if it is thought necessary to either 1) protect other nations from harm or 2) protect a nation's own people from its government, or in the case of a civil war, one or more factions." NOPE!
Now THAT is a classic "When my guy does it it is ok."
With that being said, the UN has many flaws and I am not satisfied with the way things are done. But I do feel that intervention is sometimes necessary, if imperfect.
That is totally reasonable and understandable, although I do disagree. I can't with good heart support sending my neighbors son/daughter overseas to fight for another people.
I just find it pretty disgusting when we have the VP going on the record talking out his arse about "Unless we are attacked or unless there is proof we are about to be attacked", then a couple years later nary a peep when we start bombing a foreign country that is not even close to a threat to us. Did Biden qualify it with a " we should be able to intervene in a nation's affairs if it is thought necessary to either 1) protect other nations from harm or 2) protect a nation's own people from its government, or in the case of a civil war, one or more factions." NOPE!
Now THAT is a classic "When my guy does it it is ok."
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